mr senger, thanks for the additional input...time constraints keep me from debating the health care issue at length, i just wanted to discuss what the poll numbers look like. it probably won't surprise you that i'm in that 10 percent or so that wants a more robust bill. cheers

Posted by: dj spellchecka (c falls) on March 11, 2010 7:19PM

DJ you need to get back to the reason for all these polls, the Health Care Bill. Maybe I can better explain myself if I share the communications I sent to Rep. John Boccieri today:

Lets go back to the beginning and think in the mind of a real world business Entrepreneur. If you don't correct the systems existing problems first, and build a bigger bureaucracy on top of it, the deficiencies that caused the problems in the first place, will eventually cause, what might have been a good plan by itself, to fail. It will just take a little longer.

The only intelligent way of providing healthcare to all uninsured Americans and reduce the cost of healthcare, is to first examine the existing Big Picture and honestly define the costs dragging down the system. Before you can add to the system, you must clean up the existing mess and fix what is obviously broken. For this I propose (5) key opportunities for improvement.

1) Medicaid and Medicare reorganization and the elimination of the excess dead weight of the bureaucracy including redundant departments and processes. 2) Crack down on the enormity of Medicaid and Medicare fraud. 3) The Federal Government take responsibility for the costs of all unfunded federal mandates previously implemented related to healthcare. 4) Implement comprehensive medical liability reform. 5) All future healthcare legislation be written by real experts in the field of private practice and institutional medicine, the pharmaceutical and insurance industries, not politicians.

If the true purpose of Health Care Reform is to cover the uninsured and eliminate all Pre-existing Conditions clauses, then look at the real facts. A simple check of the U.S. Census Bureau report, "Income, Poverty, and Health Insurance Coverage in the United States 2007. The Census Bureau report shows that the number of people without insurance actually went down in 2007 compared to the previous year — from 47 million to 45.65 million — while the number with insurance rose from 249.8 million to 253.4 million. Hence-
45.65 million total uninsured
- 9.73 million foreigners were included in the Census total
- 9.10 million $75,000 or wage earners self or uninsured
26.82 mil. w/o health insurance (financial reasons), incl. the 18-25 age group.

With currently almost 17% unemployed or under employed, these numbers are not representative of our present circumstances but do represent the America public in average times. This accounting shows less than 9% of the population is without health care. So to cover those in need of healthcare until they can afford it, and coverage for pre-existing conditions, in my opinion, the costs would be covered in a large part by the savings provided by correcting the problems I listed above as well as reducing costs.

I have identified opportunities for improvement, not the process in which to complete them. I believe the only way this process can be successfully completed is to keep the politicians out of it, solve the problems with real experts in the fields of Institutional and Private Practice medicine, the Pharmaceutical and Insurance industries, not politicians. Politicians are only experts in campaigning and raising money. In addition the needs of the people are better served at the state and local level. This way the individual is better served and the bureaucracy can be more readily policed by the People.

Furthermore the Administration has hung it’s hat on the insurance companies and their enormous profits as the overwhelming problem. The Health Care Insurance industry is only ranked #88 in the profit margin top 100. As an industry, Health Care Insurance companies only average 3.4 % profit annually. The Administration appears to only be interested in fingering a scapegoat instead of solving the problems of health care.

Fix the problems first. You can’t build a righteous organization on a broken and corrupt system and expect it to succeed. That is the definition of insanity. “Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different outcome.

Posted by: WJSenger (Wadsworth) on March 11, 2010 6:38PM

thanks to mr senger for the expanded explanation of the soundbite...

quick correction : the pollster gap is 4.4%, not 4.2% [math is hard]

quick clarification: when constructing their "health care plan: favor/oppose" numbers, pollster doesn't use that many polls from the broadcast networks...here's the list of every poll they cited since jan 1st [newest first]: AP-GfK, Gallup, Rasmussen, YouGov/Polimetrix, Rasmussen, Ipsos/McClatchy, Rasmussen, Newsweek, Public Opinion Strategies, YouGov/Polimetrix, Kaiser/ PSRA, PPP, Rasmussen, YouGov/Polimetrix, Pew, ABC/Post, Quinnipiac, YouGov/Polimetrix, PPP, Ipsos/McClatchy ,YouGov/Polimetrix, NBC/WSJ, Harris (internet), CNN, NPR, Rasmussen, PPP, YouGov/Polimetrix, Rasmussen, AP-GfK, ABC/Post, NBC/WSJ, FOX, Kaiser / PSRA, YouGov/Polimetrix, Democracy Corps, Quinnipiac, Gallup, CNN, Rasmussen, Allstate/National Journal, YouGov/Polimetrix, Rasmussen...

Posted by: dj spellchecka (c falls) on March 11, 2010 5:31PM

jeff, you left out that pollster also uses gallup, ppp, harris, kaiser, npr, pew...by the way, the rasmussen poll you cited was from 2/21...their most recent was from 3/5-6 and shows opposition at 53%, approval at 42..

gallup, asking the following question, [3/4-7/10] "would you advise your representative in congress to vote for or against a healthcare bill similar to the one proposed by president obama?" found 48% said vote against, 45% said vote for....[results posted 3/9/10 at gallup.com]

mark blumethal writing for pollster notes "The trend, a 4.4 percentage point drop in opposition and a 1.6 percent increase in support -- is more or less consistent with the trends shown by YouGov/Polimetrix and Rasmussen Reports, the two organizations that have polled most often on this topic during 2010. The results from PPP and IPSOS are also consistent with the same trend."

and adds "Rasmussen shows a house effect on the oppose percentage (typically 5-6 point higher than our trend line; early January was an exception), but tends to be in the middle of the pack on the favor percentage." yougov/polimetrix goes the other way..

the current pollster gap between oppose/favor is 4.2%

Posted by: dj spellchecka (c falls) on March 11, 2010 4:38PM

Whoa! You're correct Mr. dj spellchecka. Pollster.com's numbers are aggregates of well known organizations like NBC, ABC, CBS, MSNBC, CNN and yes, even Fox News. I wonder why their results are skewed left. Hmmmmm.... Perhaps Gallup is also providing an "inaccurate description of public opinion." Mr. dj, please open your mind and actually read some of the legislation that is being proposed. It will cost this country more than a trillion dollars that it doesn't have, will not provide care for everyone as it touts and cause doctors to drop Medicare patients like flies, which will ultimately cause loss of services for everyone.

The fact that your name calling persists is further evidence that the facts are working against you.

Posted by: jeff (kent) on March 11, 2010 3:30PM

I am that teabagger you refereed to. My quote of 60% was a bit out of context. According to Gallup 62% of American Voters polled believed the Health Care Bill should be scraped and started over. Supporting that data CNN 48% wanted to start over, 25% want it to be passed as is and interestingly enough 25% said stop completely. Additionally IPSOS/McClatchy determined 37% felt the Bill doesn't go far enough and 54% says it goes too far.

As far as the for/against data on the current Health Care plan, I recorded 11 professional, news and industrial Polling groups, Gallup, APGFK, McCatchy, USA Today, PEW, ABC, NBC, Rasmussen, NY Post, News Week and Kaiser. All but one showed a majority opposed to the current plan with Kaiser Health Tracking Poll the only variant at a 38-38 tie. Of the ten opposed they averaged opposed 5.7% over favored, with PEW poll data indicating 38% in favor and 50% opposed. Rasmussen was only a 9% spread.

There is no reason for name calling. I am just an American like you, expressing my opinion as the Constitution affords me that right. I believe the system needs fixing but a politician is not qualified to design or administer Health Care.

Posted by: WJSenger (Wadsworth) on March 11, 2010 3:06PM

fail! i cited multiple polls, [pollster.com's numbers are aggregates of well known organizations] and facts. [jeff doesn't like my facts, i guess] the ksu segment was about tea party attendees aka teabaggers... jon chait at new republic adds "Of course, Rasmussen's inaccurate description of public opinion in the service of trying to defeat health care reform is all the more reason to treat his poll numbers with skepticism."

Posted by: dj spellchecka (c falls) on March 11, 2010 1:56PM

I suppose that polls are only as accurate as the pollster is inclined to be. This is why I typically ignore poll results unless they are from reputable pollsters who make their living from accurate reporting. Rasmussen is one of the more credible pollsters. Rasmussen's poll indicates that public support for healthcare reform has dropped to its lowest point this year, with only 41% favoring the reform proposed by President Obama and 56% opposed.

Rather than call someone that I disagree with a teabagger (which is someone who practices deviant sexual practices), I would much rather debate the facts. Unfortunately, "dj spellchecka" appears to have very little factual ammunition, so he or she resorts to name calling.

Posted by: jeff (kent) on March 11, 2010 1:41PM

contrary to the sound bite from the teabagger claiming that 60% of people want nothing to do with obama's health care proposals, this week's Economist/YouGov poll shows "a small margin of support for the health care reform proposals put forth by the Obama Administration, with 53% supporting them and 47% opposing." pollster.com has the disapproval numbers at 48.2@%. that number drops to 45.9% when you throw rasmussen out....and remember, somewhere between 10 and 15% disapprove of the current plan because it doesn't go far enough.

Posted by: dj spellchecka (c falls oh) on March 10, 2010 2:49PM