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	<title>Comments on: Vienna&#8217;s Glass Ceiling Cracking?</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.wksu.org/classical/2008/05/12/viennas-glass-ceiling-cracking/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.wksu.org/classical/2008/05/12/viennas-glass-ceiling-cracking/</link>
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	<pubDate>Sat, 30 Aug 2008 01:49:38 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: David Roden</title>
		<link>http://www.wksu.org/classical/2008/05/12/viennas-glass-ceiling-cracking/#comment-50</link>
		<dc:creator>David Roden</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 May 2008 00:20:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.wksu.org/classical/?p=54#comment-50</guid>
		<description>Thanks for your comment.  I confess, I haven't surveyed orchestras about their current audition screening practices.  I also haven't found a source which documents which orchestras do and don't currently screen audition final rounds.  If you know of an authoritative source, I'd appreciate it if you'd please post a reference.

I did refer to "Orchestrating Impartiality," a paper published in 1997.  There authors Claudia Goldin and Cecilia Rouse report that of the eleven major orchestras they studied, 4 had fully or partially screened final audition stages.  That's over one-third.  Of course, eleven orchestras is a pretty meager sample from which to draw definitive conclusions about percentages screening finals.

Goldin and Rouse assert that "For female musicians who made it to the final round, the individual fixed-effects regression result indicates that the screen increases the likelihood of their winning by about 30 percentage points."  Thus, I'd say it's definitely worth noting that the Phil gave the initial nod to Plaichinger in 2001 despite the absence of the screen in the final round.

Perhaps it is "important to see what musicians look like while they play,"  but I have to wonder what kind of appearance would legitimately disqualify someone with outstanding technique and musicianship.  

As for your second point, I don't think it's incorrect to say that the Staatsoper is "traditionally a training ground for the Philharmonic," but thank you for clarifying the personnel relationship between the two.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for your comment.  I confess, I haven&#8217;t surveyed orchestras about their current audition screening practices.  I also haven&#8217;t found a source which documents which orchestras do and don&#8217;t currently screen audition final rounds.  If you know of an authoritative source, I&#8217;d appreciate it if you&#8217;d please post a reference.</p>
<p>I did refer to &#8220;Orchestrating Impartiality,&#8221; a paper published in 1997.  There authors Claudia Goldin and Cecilia Rouse report that of the eleven major orchestras they studied, 4 had fully or partially screened final audition stages.  That&#8217;s over one-third.  Of course, eleven orchestras is a pretty meager sample from which to draw definitive conclusions about percentages screening finals.</p>
<p>Goldin and Rouse assert that &#8220;For female musicians who made it to the final round, the individual fixed-effects regression result indicates that the screen increases the likelihood of their winning by about 30 percentage points.&#8221;  Thus, I&#8217;d say it&#8217;s definitely worth noting that the Phil gave the initial nod to Plaichinger in 2001 despite the absence of the screen in the final round.</p>
<p>Perhaps it is &#8220;important to see what musicians look like while they play,&#8221;  but I have to wonder what kind of appearance would legitimately disqualify someone with outstanding technique and musicianship.  </p>
<p>As for your second point, I don&#8217;t think it&#8217;s incorrect to say that the Staatsoper is &#8220;traditionally a training ground for the Philharmonic,&#8221; but thank you for clarifying the personnel relationship between the two.</p>
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		<title>By: anonymous</title>
		<link>http://www.wksu.org/classical/2008/05/12/viennas-glass-ceiling-cracking/#comment-48</link>
		<dc:creator>anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 May 2008 21:11:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.wksu.org/classical/?p=54#comment-48</guid>
		<description>While the subject of this article is relevant and important, the writer should be careful to do more research to ensure that his facts are accurate.

1. "In most cases, for example, prospective players now try out behind screens that hide them from the judges." 

While it is true that most orchestras have some part of their auditions screened, very few actually go through the entire process without seeing the applicant.  Most, like Vienna, remove the screen for the final round.  The later quote about the Philharmonic believing it is important to see what a player looks like seems intended to make the VPO seem outlandish for making such a statement, when many musicians (male and female) would likely agree.

2. "the Vienna State Opera Orchestra (Wiener Staatsoper), traditionally a training ground for the Philharmonic."

Actually, the Staatsoper is the ONLY way into the Philharmonic.

From wienerphilharmoniker.at:
"In accordance with Philharmonic statutes, only a member of the Vienna State Opera Orchestra can become a member of the Vienna Philharmonic. Before joining the Philharmonic therefore, one must first successfully audition for a position with the State Opera Orchestra and prove oneself capable over a period of three years before becoming eligible to submit an application for membership in the association of the Vienna Philharmonic."</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>While the subject of this article is relevant and important, the writer should be careful to do more research to ensure that his facts are accurate.</p>
<p>1. &#8220;In most cases, for example, prospective players now try out behind screens that hide them from the judges.&#8221; </p>
<p>While it is true that most orchestras have some part of their auditions screened, very few actually go through the entire process without seeing the applicant.  Most, like Vienna, remove the screen for the final round.  The later quote about the Philharmonic believing it is important to see what a player looks like seems intended to make the VPO seem outlandish for making such a statement, when many musicians (male and female) would likely agree.</p>
<p>2. &#8220;the Vienna State Opera Orchestra (Wiener Staatsoper), traditionally a training ground for the Philharmonic.&#8221;</p>
<p>Actually, the Staatsoper is the ONLY way into the Philharmonic.</p>
<p>From wienerphilharmoniker.at:<br />
&#8220;In accordance with Philharmonic statutes, only a member of the Vienna State Opera Orchestra can become a member of the Vienna Philharmonic. Before joining the Philharmonic therefore, one must first successfully audition for a position with the State Opera Orchestra and prove oneself capable over a period of three years before becoming eligible to submit an application for membership in the association of the Vienna Philharmonic.&#8221;</p>
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